WEBVTT

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With those very quick overview
reminders

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let me turn things over to your
session facilitator to actually

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start today's broadcast. Jim,
feel free to begin whenever

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you're ready.

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>> Thank you, everyone for
joining us. I

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am your session moderator. It
looks like we have a pretty good
crowd

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including a lot of folks from
across the US and several

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other countries.

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We have a great group of
speakers whom I will

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introduce in just a minute, but
first let me say a few words
about

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the webinar series. The EPA
office of research and
development design

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this series to explore some of
the key aspects and challenges
in working

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with contaminated sediment

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sites. For those who are not
familiar, or D is the EPA
scientific research

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arm. They help inform agency
decisions. The research that

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they do is driven by the need of
stakeholders. The objective of

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these seminars is to both inform
you about the latest tools

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and methods that are available,
but also to solicit

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your concerns and understand
your research needs around these
topic

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areas that you can see at the
top of the page

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today.

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>> In light of our interest in
getting some of

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your feedback you have already
participated in

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icebreaker activities.
Throughout this webinar there
will be a series

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of interactive activities. We
were

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really like to get your feedback
on these different topics that
we

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pose. So, if you haven't
already, please, go ahead

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and type in a response or check
one of the responses for some of

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the challenges that you face
with contaminated sites. You
will see

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a question like this. As
mentioned, use the space at the
bottom to enter

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a word or a phrase or if you
agree with someone else's entry
you can

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just press the green square over
to the right and that will
register

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your response also. It looks
like we have quite a few
responses.

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It looks like we all face a
number of the same challenges at
these

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contaminated sites.

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Some of the different challenges
that we seem to face are the

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fact that these are very large,
diffuse areas. They are very act

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with dynamic conditions. There
are also

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multiple source areas that are
difficult to

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control. It is hard to figure
out how to do some of these were
mediations.

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Often times, these were
mediations have a much

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higher cost. Ultimately, there
are resources that are very
unique to

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these environments that we have
to try to protect and understand

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as we move forward toward
assessment and mitigation. How
do we

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address these? Given these
challenges we need to find some
really affect

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the ways to address these
contaminated that immense all
throughout the

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project lifecycle.

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Our CFOs have to be based on
good site characterization. The
data

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has to be robust, good enough to
build a strong framework for
dividing

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risk and mitigation strategy. We
have to collect and apply
current

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and relevant data to inform the
risk

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of assessment. We have to help
define effective cleanup goals
taste on

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that data. Finally, we need to
ensure the remedies that we are
using are

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addressing the risk report read
and efficient monitoring
throughout

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the project lifecycle.

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>> A lot of experts will explore
the

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latest thinking in all of these
areas up above. Your job is

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to listen, adjust, and respond
to that information and give us

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your feedback so that we can
turn that into some

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research areas. Today our topics
will be site characterization.

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Proper site characterization is
crucial to the success of any

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future action that we want to
take.

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Today speakers are going to talk
about some

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of the tools that we can use for
developing the CSM using
modeling

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and then we are going to talk
about a couple specific sampling
methodologies

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that collect data to build and
refine

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a good solid CSM. Our first
presentation is from a team of
experts from the

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Corps of Engineers engineering
research and development center.
They

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are going to help us understand
the range of models available to

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support contaminated sediment.
And studies throughout

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the project lifecycle. Together
this team has over 100 years of

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experience. A panel of experts
includes Todd Bridges, Paul
Schroeder, Earl

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Haider, John Hayes, and Joe
Gilani.

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Next, we move from planning to
implementation of site

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characterization were Matt and
Marvin will tell us about the

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incremental sampling. We will
talk about some equipment and
planning

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necessary to implement an
effective strategy.

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That is Matt specialization,
site characterization.

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Some of it is the more
logistically challenging areas
around

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the Pacific. Marvin specializes
in chemistry and data

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quality issues. Our final
speaker will

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be Dr. Rainer, he has done
extensive

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work in the area of monitoring
programs and monitoring
techniques with more

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than 100 peer-reviewed journal
articles.

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Today we will discuss the uses
and limitations of sampling
devices

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for measuring or Gannett
contaminants in

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water. We encourage you to
actively participate and to
respond

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to the various questions and
poles your own questions as you
see throughout

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the session.

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Now I would like to turn the
presentation over to our first
speakers from

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the Corps of Engineers
engineering development center.

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>> Jim, this is Todd Bridges. I
will

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be starting. We appreciate the
opportunity to be here and to
contribute to

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this important topic. Modeling

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for contaminated sediment size
is a big topic. We

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have collected together an
experienced range represented by
the office

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of this presentation about 10
minutes

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worth of overview. It would be
very easy

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to spend 10 hours on this topic,
we probably could spend 10 days.

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We have collected some thoughts
relevant

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to this topic.

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It is designed to present a lot
of the complexities that we are

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challenged with as we try to
manage risk related to

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contaminated sediment in respect
to modeling as a way

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of characterizing.

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One question that has been posed
is to model or not to model,

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that is the question. At times
you will hear people express

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the idea that they want to make
decisions based on data rather
than

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models, expressing a level of
discomfort or lack of
confidence.

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I think we would suggest
respectfully that question
should be probably

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set aside. It is not whether to
model, it is really how

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to model at appropriate scales
and levels of effort and we will
get

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into that question more. The
other issue I

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think might present by way of
introduction is a condition that
we have seen

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at a number of sites and those
who contributed to developing

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this presentation have literally
worked on hundreds

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of contaminated sediments over
our careers. It is the
unfortunate condition

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where we have dueling models
operating at sites

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where we may have PRP's and
those representing the

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government doing different kinds
of modeling, and kinds

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of models and then trying to
reconcile those. I think one of

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the opportunities that we had is
how we might be able to approach

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this going forward.

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Models are a way of
understanding data. In fact,
converting

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data into information is one of
the most important uses of
modeling

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that we can actually present.
There are a range

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of questions that can motivate
modeling or

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drive modeling. You see a list
here as a subset that are
relevant

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to characterization and projects
relevant to

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contaminated sediments
generally.

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I am not going to read these to
you, those participating in the

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webinar can do so.

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>> The idea is we have a number
of reasons why we engage in

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modeling. In fact, modeling as
an important activity really
encompasses

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the full lifecycle of such a

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project, including remedial
investigation and feasibility,
studying portions

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as well as the implementation of
actual remedies and the
monitoring

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that follows. Data, the use of
data, and developing modeling
frameworks

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that allow us to understand what
the

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data needs and how to use the
information

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that we derive from data is
critical at all stages of the
contaminated

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sediment project. With this
brief introduction I am going

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to transition to my colleague
who is going to present the next
few

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slides of our presentation.

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>> Thank you.

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What we are talking about here
is the degree of quantitative

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analysis that has to be
performed on the data to address
the

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questions that we are trying to
answer. It might

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be what the response will be to
various remediation. The smaller

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scale site possibly is easy to
extrapolate

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data that already exists without
the use of any type of a
modeling

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framework in which to structure
the data and

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predict what the system is going
to do in the

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future. Those sites are
generally rare due to

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the complexity. Sites are
homogeneous.

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The contamination can vary. The
limited modeling efforts

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may be needed to structure that
data and

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identify how the areas things

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will respond under various
alternatives.

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Generally, simpler models are
used to address a narrow range
of questions

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to make a sound decision.

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>> Many sites have

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high variable sediment
properties, contaminant
concentrations

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and hydrologic processes.

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In these heterogeneous systems
we will

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probably need miracle models to
frame the

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data and evaluate alternatives
in how we

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expect the system to respond
under various

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along terms. These models can
also help us decide what data to
collect

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and other important factors.
Numerical models

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that predict long-term future
response of a

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system will likely be needed
when you are managing sediments
in place

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or groundwater discharges

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or where you have continuing
sources and background
contamination and/or

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the sediments are dynamic.

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>> There is a statement that

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it's really useful and really
got his introduction

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in 1979 for the robustness of
scientific model

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building in the part that is
identified here. You can

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find that online. It is really a
good

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chapter on the models. It is
really an

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acknowledgment that models are
geophysical, chemical, and
biological processes

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that occur.

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Rather you treat the entire site
is one box in the model or you
have

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100 cells within the model that
have areas levels of

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hydrological processes,
contaminant concentrations, or
sediment types

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there is still a growth.

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However, some models can
adequately

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represent the evolution of a
system such that the model can
be used

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to compare alternatives and
identify proper management of a

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site. However, as important as
the model is, the

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modeler has to understand not
only the system that you are
working

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on, but how the model represents
the processes in

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that system. Only then can the
modeler determine how to use the
model for

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the purposes which you have
identified.

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For example comparing risk
reduction

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under various alternatives. Now
I am going

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to identify what the models may
be

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used for.

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The model actually can tell you
things about where you need to
collect

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the data, where the vulnerable
locations are, where there are

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still gaps. Where systems are
dynamic.

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You can use it to refine the
conceptual model and this way
you can develop

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a more robust understanding of
the system and a more robust

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numerical model representation.
The model

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is often used as a diagnostic
tool for predicting teacher

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behavior. Specifically, this is
where we can look at remediation

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alternatives and determine which
will achieve

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the objective or the

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management goal. It is used to
evaluate the various

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options and then support the
remedy design. It can also

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help understand how the sites
should be monitored,

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where things are most likely to
occur, where, for example there

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may be exposure of sediment and
where to

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focus your limited monitoring
dollars.

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With that to continue on him
going to hand it over

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to Earl.

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>> I am Earl Haider, the next
three slides we have compiled

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a list of modeling related
issues

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that we have encountered over
the past

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multiple decades. Not only in
selecting the models,

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but in applying and many
different sites. Here we are
starting

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at number one, these are

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somewhat prioritized in terms of
their importance. If you

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have decided through your
analysis that modeling is needed

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at your particular site then the
selection of which model to

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use its extremely critical.
Again, it is

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recommended that models the used
it happened used at

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other sites. It is highly
recommended that proprietary
codes are not used,

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that is also included in the
2006 contaminated sediment
guidance document

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published by EPA and a
collaborative approach

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to model development and use
between EPN modelers and the PRP
modeling

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team is definitely preferred or
recommended. Just like selecting

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which models should be used at
the site is critical, selection
of the

361
00:19:31.067 --> 00:19:34.067
modeling team is also very
important. Usually at most

362
00:19:34.067 --> 00:19:40.067
sites because of the complexity
of the physical

363
00:19:40.067 --> 00:19:45.067
and chemical and biological
processes that are put

364
00:19:45.067 --> 00:19:50.067
in their usually you want to
select a team that have
extensive experience

365
00:19:50.067 --> 00:19:55.067
in similar environments. These
lists are based on our
experience where

366
00:19:55.067 --> 00:19:58.067
things that we have single
rights were models have been
applied and

367
00:19:58.067 --> 00:20:05.067
where things have gone wrong
because maybe the proper model
was not

368
00:20:05.067 --> 00:20:11.067
selected or a very experienced
modeling team was not selected.

369
00:20:11.067 --> 00:20:14.000
Those two are extremely
important.

370
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.000
For the second time I am not
going to go

371
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:22.000
through and discuss all 10. I am
going to move on to the next
slide

372
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:28.000
and go down and Priestley hit on
five and six. Again, the

373
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:33.067
modeling team that has been
selected is hopefully very
experienced. They

374
00:20:33.067 --> 00:20:36.067
need to be familiar with the
model that is going to be
applied and

375
00:20:36.067 --> 00:20:42.067
how they represent these
processes that

376
00:20:42.067 --> 00:20:47.067
control the contamination and
possible transport.

377
00:20:47.067 --> 00:20:53.067
Again, experience of running a
model is

378
00:20:53.067 --> 00:20:57.067
not sufficient. The modeler must
be familiar with how the model
represents

379
00:20:57.067 --> 00:21:01.067
each of these processes. Going
right in to point number six, if

380
00:21:01.067 --> 00:21:06.067
necessary the modeling team
should be able to

381
00:21:06.067 --> 00:21:15.000
modify one or more of the
subroutines in your model to
represent

382
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.000
site-specific conditions.

383
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:23.000
Again, also be familiar with how
each model is representing

384
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:28.000
these different processes to
make sufficient or

385
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:33.000
appropriate changes to better
represent site-specific
conditions. They also

386
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:36.000
must be able to validate the
call.

387
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:41.000
You want to make sure you do
test

388
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:47.000
it thermally -- thoroughly
before you proceed.

389
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:52.000
Going back to the last four of
the top 10 list, number seven I
think

390
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.000
it's very important. All of
these are.

391
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.000
Modelers should be a part of the
team evaluating the alternative

392
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.000
and familiar with the outcomes
required.

393
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.000
I myself have been involved at
sediment sites where

394
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.000
as part of the team we are given
scenarios that we need to

395
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.934
model without any background
information.

396
00:22:16.934 --> 00:22:20.934
We were not a part of the
decision-making process to add

397
00:22:20.934 --> 00:22:24.934
possible input in deciding which
types of scenarios

398
00:22:24.934 --> 00:22:37.000
could realistically be model and
which cannot.

399
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.000
>> Lastly, number eight, never
be satisfied

400
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:46.000
with one answer. As everyone has
heard the expression and model

401
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:52.000
model is just one line of
evidence.

402
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:58.000
You definitely need to perform
sensitivity and even bracketing

403
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.000
to try to semi-quantify the
uncertainty

404
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:07.000
associated with the results.
Because of time I am going to
move

405
00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:13.000
on to the next lie, which gives
a copy

406
00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.934
of the cover of a report that I
have a recommend

407
00:23:17.934 --> 00:23:20.934
for anyone who is going to be
using models at the site or
thinking about

408
00:23:20.934 --> 00:23:26.934
using models, these are
published by the office of

409
00:23:26.934 --> 00:23:33.000
federal mediation and technology
innovation published back

410
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:38.000
in 2009. A very valuable
reference that you can

411
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.000
get directly from the webpage.
With that I'm going

412
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:50.000
to go to the very last slide. We
finally do have a

413
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:55.000
photo. This is at New Bedford
Harvard, Massachusetts.

414
00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.000
It is very short reach of the
barrier

415
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.000
that crosses the mouth of the
harbor. With that I will open

416
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:08.000
it up for any questions.

417
00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.000
>> Angst, team. Feel free to
enter some questions. Just type
your

418
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:17.934
question in and I will try to
bring them up. The

419
00:24:17.934 --> 00:24:23.934
first question that we posed is
item

420
00:24:23.934 --> 00:24:29.934
number 6 suggested we use or
that you use open source code
models.

421
00:24:29.934 --> 00:24:35.000
Why is it important to use
these?

422
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:41.000
>> It is important so that if
necessary the model can be

423
00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:47.000
modified by the modeling team
during the application of

424
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.000
that model. If you are just
using a

425
00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:58.000
proprietary model, unless you
contact the developer the

426
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:04.000
team will not be able to make
any changes.

427
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.000
That is one of the main reasons,
just so that you can

428
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:16.000
make modifications, but also
because of the fact if it is an

429
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.000
open-source model that means it
probably has been

430
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.000
applied at multiple locations
worldwide.

431
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:27.000
By multiple applications and
multiple modeling teams. Again,

432
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:31.067
models began to get familiar and
maybe make suggestions

433
00:25:31.067 --> 00:25:38.067
to changes. Because it is open
people

434
00:25:38.067 --> 00:25:40.067
can go in, look at the code and
make modifications if necessary.

435
00:25:40.067 --> 00:25:46.067
Joe, do you want to add anything
to that?

436
00:25:46.067 --> 00:25:49.067
>> I will answer, this is Todd.

437
00:25:49.067 --> 00:25:54.067
Just to say that sometimes some
of the criticisms

438
00:25:54.067 --> 00:26:02.067
you might hear about modeling is
it is being approached as a
black

439
00:26:02.067 --> 00:26:06.067
box exercise. Part of that issue
is what Earl was just
addressing.

440
00:26:06.067 --> 00:26:10.067
If you do not know what is going
on inside of the box you are not

441
00:26:10.067 --> 00:26:15.000
in a position to adequately use
the modeling in the context

442
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:23.000
of a project. The application of
modeling should never be a black

443
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.000
spot or black box exercise in
any contaminated sediment

444
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:35.067
project. Having open-source
access to the code is one way of
avoiding

445
00:26:35.067 --> 00:26:37.067
that problem.

446
00:26:37.067 --> 00:26:39.067
>> We have time for another
question.

447
00:26:39.067 --> 00:26:45.067
I have a quick question,
obviously you

448
00:26:45.067 --> 00:26:50.067
deal with an awful lot of
different models that can be
applied at different

449
00:26:50.067 --> 00:26:54.067
stages. Can you give us some
suggestions? In your experience

450
00:26:54.067 --> 00:26:58.067
what is the most common model
use and what kind of

451
00:26:58.067 --> 00:27:04.067
critical data going to and come
out of

452
00:27:04.067 --> 00:27:13.067
that model?

453
00:27:13.067 --> 00:27:20.000
>> There are certain models when
you get to the most

454
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:26.000
complex levels.

455
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:31.067
There really a few use
frequently. You want to start

456
00:27:31.067 --> 00:27:37.067
basic generally and work your
way to more

457
00:27:37.067 --> 00:27:52.067
complex models.

458
00:27:52.067 --> 00:28:00.067
>> Okay.

459
00:28:00.067 --> 00:28:05.067
>> Maybe we will come back to
that later on. Right now I would
like

460
00:28:05.067 --> 00:28:10.067
to move to our second speaker of
the afternoon, a

461
00:28:10.067 --> 00:28:21.234
team from element environmental.

462
00:28:21.234 --> 00:28:37.067
>> Today we are going to talk
about sediment strategies

463
00:28:37.067 --> 00:28:42.067
and techniques. It is also known
as multi-increment sampling.
This

464
00:28:42.067 --> 00:28:45.067
is something that we have been
doing out here. Our Department
of Health

465
00:28:45.067 --> 00:28:51.067
in Hawaii has been a big
component for well over

466
00:28:51.067 --> 00:29:00.067
two years. We have had
experience doing this for over

467
00:29:00.067 --> 00:29:04.067
10 years. We wanted to share
with everyone what we have

468
00:29:04.067 --> 00:29:09.067
learned so far. I'm going to
passes over to Marvin who is
going to go

469
00:29:09.067 --> 00:29:15.000
over some general strategies

470
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:24.000
and concepts.

471
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:29.000
>> Hello this is Marvin. I would
like to start

472
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:35.067
off by going over the theory and
the background of what ISM is

473
00:29:35.067 --> 00:29:40.067
for those who haven't learned
anything about

474
00:29:40.067 --> 00:29:44.067
the concept. For those of you
who have maybe just sort of
frame

475
00:29:44.067 --> 00:29:49.067
it for sediment investigation.
It

476
00:29:49.067 --> 00:29:54.067
is basically a methodology that
offers systematic planning and

477
00:29:54.067 --> 00:29:58.067
provides a clear framework for
the development

478
00:29:58.067 --> 00:30:04.067
of objectives. It is a little
different from other processes
and systematic

479
00:30:04.067 --> 00:30:08.067
planning, in terms of when
you're done doing

480
00:30:08.067 --> 00:30:14.000
the MIS approach your answering
questions directly with

481
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.000
your data.

482
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:23.000
The key is designing your
decision units. We'll go over
that

483
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:29.000
in great detail. It essentially
is an area that you

484
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:35.067
are interested in getting
information for. MIS works for

485
00:30:35.067 --> 00:30:37.067
just about any effort.

486
00:30:37.067 --> 00:30:42.067
It is good for characterization,
risk assessment, remediation. I

487
00:30:42.067 --> 00:30:49.067
do not think we have come across
an approach where we felt it was

488
00:30:49.067 --> 00:30:54.067
not appropriate. The devil is
and the details of how you draw
your

489
00:30:54.067 --> 00:30:58.067
decisions. Rather it is
information where you

490
00:30:58.067 --> 00:31:07.067
want something or you want
really specific information.

491
00:31:07.067 --> 00:31:13.067
So let's just talk a little bit
about how it differs

492
00:31:13.067 --> 00:31:23.000
from the traditional approach.

493
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:27.000
In this example we are using 30
points because we want to
compare

494
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.000
how MIS works.

495
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:35.000
We know that everyone would not
use

496
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:42.000
30 samples, they will be far
more likely to use 4 or

497
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:48.000
perhaps 8. I know this is more
of a simple,

498
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.000
conceptual idea.

499
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:56.000
Typical methods are for
identifying site boundaries and
they

500
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:01.000
are high risk of false negatives
and false positives. They

501
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:09.000
are more expensive and not a
good design for estimating risk
over

502
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.934
an entire exposure area. When
you do discrete sampling what a

503
00:32:13.934 --> 00:32:18.934
typical laboratory will do,
especially in the case of metals
analysis,

504
00:32:18.934 --> 00:32:24.934
which is important, the
laboratory will extract a single

505
00:32:24.934 --> 00:32:29.934
gram from your container. It is
essentially

506
00:32:29.934 --> 00:32:34.000
pulling a sugar cube off of your
sites. We're going to

507
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:41.000
draw huge conclusions from that
very small amount

508
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:44.000
of information.

509
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:49.000
>> When we do ISM or MIS we are
taking samples in general,
somewhere

510
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:55.000
in the neighborhood of 30
samples or more to

511
00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.000
represent one exposure or
decision unit area. You can see

512
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.000
you get much better distribution
from that site. Also, the
laboratory

513
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:12.000
will process the entire sample.
It is a little

514
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:17.934
hard to describe, but instead of
taking the 1 g out of a jar they

515
00:33:17.934 --> 00:33:20.934
essentially take the entire
sample which we already did

516
00:33:20.934 --> 00:33:25.934
in the field by representing the
entire exposure area and
subsample

517
00:33:25.934 --> 00:33:35.000
in a matter that represents the
entire sample we

518
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:38.000
have provided.

519
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:43.000
>> Another nice thing that you
can do with the ISM approach is
further

520
00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:48.000
delineate your site boundaries
for whichever decision you might
have.

521
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:53.000
For example you might want to
break it down into smaller units
based

522
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:59.000
on remedial strategies, the
number of cubic yards you

523
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:05.000
can haul in a single effort or
perhaps better reduce the area

524
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:13.934
to determine if the source may
be coming from one side or

525
00:34:13.934 --> 00:34:18.934
the other. The good thing is the
data can be used for both

526
00:34:18.934 --> 00:34:22.934
purposes simultaneously. You can
use it to categorize and
potentially

527
00:34:22.934 --> 00:34:28.934
have information to use for IDW

528
00:34:28.934 --> 00:34:32.000
or exposure.

529
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:39.000
The original founder of the
method worked out statistics

530
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000
to create a formula for
estimating errors. He found that

531
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:45.000
a minimum of 30-75 samples could
yield results where it could
fall

532
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.000
within the percent. As mentioned
earlier the laboratory

533
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:56.000
processes the entire sample as
opposed to a single, small

534
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.000
discrete mass. What we are
providing you is an extremely

535
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:03.000
abbreviated look at what ISM is
and would highly recommend you
follow

536
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:09.000
up with other references and/or

537
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:14.000
courses offered. It produces a
fairly comprehensive document.
The Department

538
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:19.000
of Health mentioned before
reduces the technical

539
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:25.000
guidance manual, which has a lot
more of the detail and

540
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:29.000
the fundamentals. I recommend
looking

541
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:35.067
into either or both of those.

542
00:35:35.067 --> 00:35:41.067
>> Now it looks like we have

543
00:35:41.067 --> 00:35:47.067
an activity. It is extremely
important that you

544
00:35:47.067 --> 00:35:51.067
design your sampling plan in
order to gather

545
00:35:51.067 --> 00:35:57.067
data that you need for your
specific data quality objectives

546
00:35:57.067 --> 00:36:02.067
for the project you are
completing. What we have
provided

547
00:36:02.067 --> 00:36:07.067
here is a sample site. It is one
of our sites that we have

548
00:36:07.067 --> 00:36:13.067
done previously. We showed an
aerial view and you

549
00:36:13.067 --> 00:36:19.000
can see we have

550
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:23.000
the stream and how it falls to
the Pacific Ocean. It is about

551
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:28.000
a half a mile or so long. The
project involves

552
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:33.067
maintenance dredging. What we
did was we determined

553
00:36:33.067 --> 00:36:41.067
the second photo down here based
on several factors. We base it
on

554
00:36:41.067 --> 00:36:53.067
sediment volume to be dredged.

555
00:36:53.067 --> 00:36:58.067
You can see we have tailored
these to capture different

556
00:36:58.067 --> 00:37:03.067
shapes and sizes based on those
factors. What we want you

557
00:37:03.067 --> 00:37:08.067
guys to do is similar to placing
discrete samples. Take a

558
00:37:08.067 --> 00:37:14.000
crack at placing the use on-site
and then

559
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:19.000
we can explain why certain
methods might

560
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:24.000
be better than others.

561
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:29.000
This is on the island of Kawai,
also a former project site of
ours.

562
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:36.067
It is about a 130 acre or so
harbor. We have a stream here.

563
00:37:36.067 --> 00:37:42.067
We have some industrial
activities along the harbor
front and our harbor

564
00:37:42.067 --> 00:37:46.067
mouth out here. In determining
decision

565
00:37:46.067 --> 00:37:52.067
units, typically with a discrete
sample plan you may

566
00:37:52.067 --> 00:37:58.067
have 3-4. you may have one of
the river mouth, one adjacent to

567
00:37:58.067 --> 00:38:04.067
the shoreline. Some industrial
activity over here and one at
the

568
00:38:04.067 --> 00:38:08.067
harbor mouth to do some sort of
delineation. If we are going

569
00:38:08.067 --> 00:38:14.000
to make this one single DU at a
minimum we have 30

570
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:21.000
pouring locations in this 130
acres rather than a lesser,

571
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:26.000
discrete about. There are other
options. What we have done is we

572
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:32.067
have predetermined options. We
have

573
00:38:32.067 --> 00:38:37.067
thrown in some different design
alternatives to look at and to

574
00:38:37.067 --> 00:38:42.067
think about possibly for
different scenarios. You can see
we have broken

575
00:38:42.067 --> 00:38:57.067
it up into 45 decision units.

576
00:38:57.067 --> 00:39:01.067
And then a more comprehensive
way out. What we would like you

577
00:39:01.067 --> 00:39:07.067
folks to do is about sampling
plans. Maybe you

578
00:39:07.067 --> 00:39:11.067
have experience, maybe you
don't. Think about how you would

579
00:39:11.067 --> 00:39:13.067
like to position your decision
units on

580
00:39:13.067 --> 00:39:20.000
a site like this. We have giving
you options. We understand it
will

581
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:26.000
vary greatly. We know why to
choose a certain pattern

582
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.067
over another. I see some people
are already answering. It

583
00:39:31.067 --> 00:39:37.067
looks like B and C are getting
the most hits here, which

584
00:39:37.067 --> 00:39:43.067
would make the answer for us --
first off, none of these

585
00:39:43.067 --> 00:39:48.067
are wrong. It depends on what
your project goals are. However,
we feel

586
00:39:48.067 --> 00:39:53.067
in this instance if you have
Option B or Option C they

587
00:39:53.067 --> 00:40:02.067
would offer a more comprehensive
view and a better way to isolate

588
00:40:02.067 --> 00:40:05.067
potential hotspots.

589
00:40:05.067 --> 00:40:09.067
>> Someone typed in that C would
be

590
00:40:09.067 --> 00:40:12.067
too expensive. That is a really
good observation. The cost is
certainly

591
00:40:12.067 --> 00:40:15.000
something you want to consider.

592
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.000
However, we are going to talk
about a more appropriate site

593
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:25.000
characterization and we found
that we often come out 10 times
less

594
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:31.067
at the and -- end if you spend
the

595
00:40:31.067 --> 00:40:36.067
time up front.

596
00:40:36.067 --> 00:40:41.067
>> That's right. Will we have
found in our experience is the

597
00:40:41.067 --> 00:40:46.067
downhill cost. We may spend more
upfront in collecting samples,
but

598
00:40:46.067 --> 00:40:52.067
the savings are tenfold or more
when you're trying to excavate

599
00:40:52.067 --> 00:40:58.067
or dredge or dispose of this
stuff down

600
00:40:58.067 --> 00:41:01.067
the line. In a harbor like this
if you were to

601
00:41:01.067 --> 00:41:07.067
dredge 100 acres it is a sizable
amount

602
00:41:07.067 --> 00:41:12.067
of volume. Some upfront savings
can really make

603
00:41:12.067 --> 00:41:16.000
a big difference on remediation.
Basically what we

604
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:22.000
have seen on similar sites

605
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:26.000
is that you can vastly save on
volume of sediment

606
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:36.000
or soil that is not
contaminated.

607
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:42.000
>> Someone wrote in D. That is a
great observation.

608
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:46.000
Of course there is room for
other design. One thing that

609
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:52.000
Matt mentioned, none of these
are wrong.

610
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:58.000
You want to screen for
background contaminations. I am

611
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:03.000
reading a lot of these comments
and I am hearing that

612
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:12.000
is what people are looking at.
They are thinking of how they
would

613
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:12.968
approach it.

614
00:42:12.968 --> 00:42:15.567
>> We are getting some good
comments.

615
00:42:15.567 --> 00:42:21.934
I wish that we could take the
time to read all

616
00:42:21.934 --> 00:42:27.934
of them. We have just had some
brief explanations

617
00:42:27.934 --> 00:42:34.000
of why we chose option C. We

618
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:40.000
have some reasons why. You want
your DU to capture

619
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:44.000
the river. It is a potential
source contributor. Maybe you
have

620
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:50.000
established them from upstream
to downstream that will help to
isolate

621
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:55.000
or characterize from that
source. We will position to

622
00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:00.000
use based on the industrial
activities. Things that

623
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:03.000
may contribute to the nearshore
sediments. As you get out to the

624
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:08.000
harbor mouth you are looking for
delineation or finding

625
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:12.000
an end to your contamination.
Like we have seen there could be

626
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:20.934
any number of different patterns
and ways depending on a specific

627
00:43:20.934 --> 00:43:22.934
site contributor.

628
00:43:22.934 --> 00:43:26.934
>> That is an abbreviated
process of what we would go
through during

629
00:43:26.934 --> 00:43:38.000
the sampling analysis plan
phase.

630
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:43.000
>> As with street sampling
sediment sampling offers

631
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.000
some challenging planning.
Basically

632
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:51.000
it is a dynamic environment as
we have heard from previous
speakers.

633
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:56.000
As most of you know the key
factors in determining the
sediment sample

634
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:05.000
collection methods, sediment
type 1 is is it silt? Is

635
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:10.000
it Clay? The water depth and
movement, are you going to
harbor

636
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:15.934
a river? That would determine
your sample platform.

637
00:44:15.934 --> 00:44:19.934
These are all logistical type
things they really have a big
impact on

638
00:44:19.934 --> 00:44:27.934
your efficiency and the data
quality and then your

639
00:44:27.934 --> 00:44:32.000
data goals. Your establishment
is very important. If you are
characterizing

640
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:38.000
for dredge or maintenance
dredging you would have
different

641
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:44.000
the use, maybe verticals as
opposed to

642
00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:46.000
just for characterizing for
contamination

643
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:51.000
characterization. Those would
all go

644
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:56.000
into characterization.
Establishing the DU is

645
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:59.000
key.

646
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:04.000
>> This is a little example,
typical

647
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:10.000
sediment sampling. You have a
pretty large vessel and you have

648
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:16.000
large equipment. The up-and-down
of each takes

649
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.000
a while. It is a big process.
For ISM sampling we have to go
up and

650
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:26.000
down a lot. We need a

651
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:32.067
downsize. The traditional, large
equipment just

652
00:45:32.067 --> 00:45:36.067
isn't practical for a lot of
sampling locations. It would not

653
00:45:36.067 --> 00:45:41.067
be economical. We have been
working to optimize

654
00:45:41.067 --> 00:45:46.067
our equipment and our methods
and try to become more
efficient. The

655
00:45:46.067 --> 00:45:51.067
good thing about ISM sampling as
opposed to the standard hit on a

656
00:45:51.067 --> 00:45:57.067
location and then find another
GPS coordinates that has

657
00:45:57.067 --> 00:46:00.067
been predetermined.

658
00:46:00.067 --> 00:46:05.067
ISM is a randomly chosen core.
As long as you can

659
00:46:05.067 --> 00:46:09.067
define your boundaries you can
collect whatever the number

660
00:46:09.067 --> 00:46:15.000
of increments within that
decision unit randomly. You want
to

661
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:22.000
get good coverage, we have spent
days trying to anchor on a
specific

662
00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:26.000
GPS coordinates or lockdown
something based on a

663
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:30.067
sampling plan. There is one
positive in collecting random
sampling, we

664
00:46:30.067 --> 00:46:34.067
don't have to spend time doing
that.

665
00:46:34.067 --> 00:46:39.067
>> We are going to go over a
couple recent sample products.

666
00:46:39.067 --> 00:46:44.067
We have conducted sampling
around the greater Pacific area
including

667
00:46:44.067 --> 00:46:59.067
Hawaii, the outer islands of
Hawaii.

668
00:46:59.067 --> 00:47:03.067
We have chosen three of these to
go over

669
00:47:03.067 --> 00:47:07.067
quickly with you guys. The first

670
00:47:07.067 --> 00:47:13.067
case study is a canal or stream
located

671
00:47:13.067 --> 00:47:19.000
in Honolulu. The purpose is
maintenance dredging. We were
able to

672
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:24.000
find a source area that was an
old garbage incinerator.

673
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:30.067
We position one to center DU to
encapsulate any

674
00:47:30.067 --> 00:47:36.067
surface water runoff that may
have occurred.

675
00:47:36.067 --> 00:47:48.067
This is more of a screening
level.

676
00:47:48.067 --> 00:48:03.067
We collected 150 increments.

677
00:48:03.067 --> 00:48:08.067
This is one site where we were
able to do

678
00:48:08.067 --> 00:48:10.067
it by hand.

679
00:48:10.067 --> 00:48:14.000
>> One thing to keep in mind
when you are doing MIS samples,
if you

680
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:18.000
are within the same decision
unit you do not have

681
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:27.000
to Decon your equipment.

682
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:31.067
You can avoid the step as long

683
00:48:31.067 --> 00:48:44.067
as you have it moved on into
your next decision.

684
00:48:44.067 --> 00:48:50.067
>> It is a QA's QC method used
for sampling. It shows

685
00:48:50.067 --> 00:48:56.067
the level of comparability
between samples. In one of these

686
00:48:56.067 --> 00:49:02.067
it is going to

687
00:49:02.067 --> 00:49:14.000
center multicolor's.

688
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:20.000
It shows a good correlation
between samples.

689
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:36.067
Here is another study.

690
00:49:50.067 --> 00:49:57.067
>> The darker areas are the more
depositional areas where deeper

691
00:49:57.067 --> 00:50:00.067
cores were necessary. We base
our decision unit on

692
00:50:00.067 --> 00:50:06.067
sediment depth and the
information from

693
00:50:06.067 --> 00:50:09.067
this survey.

694
00:50:09.067 --> 00:50:14.000
We establish the DU's. During
the course of sampling

695
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:20.000
some of the course are up to 10
feet long. We

696
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:27.000
had to fashion a concrete
vibrator. We were able

697
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:31.067
to get down to our dredge depth
and collect

698
00:50:31.067 --> 00:50:38.067
representative samples. One note
on this, we

699
00:50:38.067 --> 00:50:41.067
had to do vertical decision
units.

700
00:50:41.067 --> 00:50:47.067
Different sediment types.

701
00:50:47.067 --> 00:50:51.067
The client in this case wanted
to be able

702
00:50:51.067 --> 00:50:55.067
to reuse whatever sediment they
could based

703
00:50:55.067 --> 00:51:00.067
on suitability. They wanted to
use the sand for

704
00:51:00.067 --> 00:51:06.067
each redevelopment. We were able
to differentiate and collect

705
00:51:06.067 --> 00:51:12.067
separate vertical DU to achieve

706
00:51:12.067 --> 00:51:18.000
the goals.

707
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:22.000
>> The last thing here is the
same picture that was in the

708
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.000
exercise, we tailored to use
towards sources and volume. You
can see

709
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.000
here, we have been messing
around with all sorts of

710
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.000
techniques. This is really
shallow.

711
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:40.000
We were able to form this out of
a car buffer that we got

712
00:51:40.000 --> 00:51:43.000
at Napa to assist in getting
down to our dredge depth. You
can see

713
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:49.000
the plastic tube is our method
of choice

714
00:51:49.000 --> 00:51:55.000
for collection. We can see the
sediment.

715
00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:01.000
As we go along here, we have

716
00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:07.000
been evolving our method. We
have

717
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:12.000
been using this fiber core that
is being produced

718
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:17.934
now in Texas. It has just come
out

719
00:52:17.934 --> 00:52:23.934
this year. This is great. We can
easily deploy.

720
00:52:23.934 --> 00:52:32.000
There is no need for a large
bowl. There is no need for

721
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:38.000
a crane. These are photos of
what the core looks like when

722
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:44.000
it comes up. You can see this is
where we look

723
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:50.000
at it and to our
characterization, possibly
choose our

724
00:52:50.000 --> 00:53:00.000
vertical EU.

725
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:05.000
>> The overall take away in our

726
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:10.000
experience is it can be
labor-intensive more so than if
you would compare

727
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:18.934
it to

728
00:53:18.934 --> 00:53:24.934
collecting 93x30. It requires
flexibility, adaptability

729
00:53:24.934 --> 00:53:27.934
of collection methods.

730
00:53:27.934 --> 00:53:31.000
Obviously we have tried many
different ways. We are gaining
more experience

731
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:35.000
and house. We are feeling more
comfortable about different ways
to collect

732
00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:40.000
sediment as well as folks in the
industry. I think the overall
take

733
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:46.000
away is we have found the
overall cost may be slightly

734
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:52.000
higher if you do a similar
discrete method.

735
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:56.000
That seems to be

736
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:02.000
our way if you were to collect a
street sample for the same I

737
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:11.000
am sample it will be more
expensive.

738
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:16.934
We have found data as far as
characterizing and

739
00:54:16.934 --> 00:54:19.934
determining risk. Marvin, do you

740
00:54:19.934 --> 00:54:22.934
have anything?

741
00:54:22.934 --> 00:54:26.934
>> I think I will save my or
answering questions if they have

742
00:54:26.934 --> 00:54:27.934
any after.

743
00:54:27.934 --> 00:54:33.000
>> We had quite a few questions
come up, unfortunately we are
out

744
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:40.000
of time for your presentation
right now. What we are showing
is a

745
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:44.000
video clip of deploying one of
the sediment samples. If you

746
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:49.000
want to take a minute and
explain will move right onto the

747
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.000
next speaker.

748
00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:54.000
>> This is an application.

749
00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:02.000
You can lower it onto a cable,
the vibration unit and the
weights

750
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:08.000
are attached. You can send it
down into deeper depths. You

751
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:13.067
turn the unit on and run it
remotely using a cable device.
You

752
00:55:13.067 --> 00:55:21.000
collect the sample and you
retrieve it back to the boat. We
are fortunate

753
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:33.067
to have this location. In this
case we

754
00:55:33.067 --> 00:55:37.067
hit refusal at about a foot. It
would've been nice to

755
00:55:37.067 --> 00:55:43.067
show it going deeper at

756
00:55:43.067 --> 00:55:46.067
that location.

757
00:55:46.067 --> 00:55:50.067
>> What thanks very much. We
will have time at

758
00:55:50.067 --> 00:55:59.067
the end and we will try to get
to some of the

759
00:55:59.067 --> 00:56:02.067
many questions.

760
00:56:02.067 --> 00:56:08.067
Understanding and setting up
DU's as opposed

761
00:56:08.067 --> 00:56:12.067
to discrete samples. Our final
speaker

762
00:56:12.067 --> 00:56:18.000
for this afternoon will be

763
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:22.000
speaking about past samples and
how they can give

764
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:28.000
us a good understanding of some
of

765
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:34.067
the limitations.

766
00:56:34.067 --> 00:56:38.067
>> We started off to get to

767
00:56:38.067 --> 00:56:44.067
know how familiar people are
with passive sampling. It looks
like

768
00:56:44.067 --> 00:56:47.067
we have a mix of very
experienced professionals, some

769
00:56:47.067 --> 00:56:53.067
who have never use them and some
who claim to

770
00:56:53.067 --> 00:57:05.067
not know what they are.

771
00:57:05.067 --> 00:57:09.067
To make this very simple a pass
sample is a tool

772
00:57:09.067 --> 00:57:17.000
that we can use to measure the
activity of pollutants in

773
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:23.000
the field. It works great
diffusion, which also means it
is somewhat

774
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:26.000
on the slow side.

775
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:29.000
I really mean that only those
contaminants that

776
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:35.067
are mobile and can diffuse can
we measure. We cannot

777
00:57:35.067 --> 00:57:38.067
take up any of the contaminants
found the particles

778
00:57:38.067 --> 00:57:42.067
because they cannot diffuse into
the sample excel. That

779
00:57:42.067 --> 00:57:48.067
is a distinction where we really
measure what

780
00:57:48.067 --> 00:57:53.067
is available.

781
00:57:53.067 --> 00:57:59.067
Of course we need to know about
the coefficients. How we

782
00:57:59.067 --> 00:58:03.067
translate the concentration to
dissolve concentrations

783
00:58:03.067 --> 00:58:09.067
around it. We have to have some
way of determining whether

784
00:58:09.067 --> 00:58:13.067
or not the compounds have
reached equilibrium. We do that

785
00:58:13.067 --> 00:58:19.000
typically through performance
reference compounds or other
such approaches

786
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:26.000
to verifying if it has been

787
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:27.000
reached.

788
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:33.067
>> The widest range of
literature has been for

789
00:58:33.067 --> 00:58:38.067
organic contaminants. Mostly
this is for

790
00:58:38.067 --> 00:58:43.067
sediments, but you can use the
same approach to measure the
water

791
00:58:43.067 --> 00:58:48.067
column itself. You can do it in
the air,

792
00:58:48.067 --> 00:58:53.067
and there are some applications
where they are actually

793
00:58:53.067 --> 00:58:57.067
used or inserted into the tissue
of fish for example. And terms
of

794
00:58:57.067 --> 00:59:03.067
contaminants we are talking
about the contaminants,

795
00:59:03.067 --> 00:59:09.067
flame retardant and pesticides.
That is what they

796
00:59:09.067 --> 00:59:15.000
are best suited for. Note that
of course science

797
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:24.000
is underway and I think future
webinars will feature one

798
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:30.067
of those.

799
00:59:30.067 --> 00:59:36.067
There is a picture here on

800
00:59:36.067 --> 00:59:39.067
the right-hand side of your
screen. It shows the three

801
00:59:39.067 --> 00:59:45.067
most commonly used that are
being used

802
00:59:45.067 --> 00:59:49.067
right now. There is
polyethylene, they are often

803
00:59:49.067 --> 00:59:54.067
use because there very simple
and very cheap. They can be cut
to

804
00:59:54.067 --> 01:00:00.067
any size that you wish. There
are also silicone she's can be
used

805
01:00:00.067 --> 01:00:05.067
and a wide range of skinny
fibers. Those are much thinner

806
01:00:05.067 --> 01:00:11.067
and are much faster, but also
they do not get as many

807
01:00:11.067 --> 01:00:17.000
contaminants on the fiber. Why
are these you so much?

808
01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:26.000
The coefficients is wide
available.

809
01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:31.067
Why would we use these if we are
so

810
01:00:31.067 --> 01:00:37.067
happy with using sediments?
There are a few

811
01:00:37.067 --> 01:00:42.067
lines of evidence that could be
obvious. The subtle sediment

812
01:00:42.067 --> 01:00:46.067
concentration is not a very easy
matrix. It is easy to measure,

813
01:00:46.067 --> 01:00:50.067
but what the number means is
very complicated. Traditionally,

814
01:00:50.067 --> 01:00:55.067
we have used geochemical
approaches to translate

815
01:00:55.067 --> 01:01:00.067
the total concentration to the
bioavailable concentration that
is propagated

816
01:01:00.067 --> 01:01:05.067
into a different concentration.
It was

817
01:01:05.067 --> 01:01:10.067
fairly early on an apparent that
looking at this approach does
not

818
01:01:10.067 --> 01:01:16.000
really work well. I am showing
one example from my own work 50

819
01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:23.000
years ago looking at sediment in
New York Harbor and Boston
Harbor

820
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:29.000
shown as the diagonal line to be
the perfect prediction. You can

821
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:35.000
see all of the measure of
concentrations are much
different. It

822
01:01:35.000 --> 01:01:41.000
was observed much stronger than
we anticipated. We know that

823
01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:45.000
it doesn't work. The question is
how do you perceive? One option

824
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:47.000
was to look at organic and black
carbon. You know you have

825
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:53.000
to go out to the field to
measure the sediment. But of
course depending

826
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:58.000
on the site you might have other
particles. At any given site

827
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:01.000
you have to introduce different
terms to make sure the

828
01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:06.000
positioning is correct. Of
course another way is measuring
the

829
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:12.000
water concentration directly.
That is where you get the main
direct

830
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:17.934
measure in the field or in the
lab

831
01:02:17.934 --> 01:02:20.934
of availability. The other part
is for the legacy organic
pollutants

832
01:02:20.934 --> 01:02:24.934
we are worried about the
accumulation and the lipids. It
turned

833
01:02:24.934 --> 01:02:31.000
out the diffusion into the
membrane is

834
01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:34.334
very similar. There is the

835
01:02:34.334 --> 01:02:40.000
potential that these
[ Indiscernible ] there

836
01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:52.000
is an example here from Cary
Freeman's work. The

837
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:58.000
concentration here
[ Indiscernible ]. Here you

838
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:04.000
see the comparison. It is almost
perfect

839
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:10.000
one-to-one suggesting it was
exposed to the same sediment

840
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:26.000
and gets the same concentration.

841
01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:39.000
That is the idea.

842
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:45.000
>> Now I think what is the
latest

843
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:51.000
development is do you want to
have the

844
01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:57.000
field measurement or would you
rather bring it back to the lab

845
01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:06.000
and to the collaboration in the
lab? There

846
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:11.000
is a high pressure to deploy in
the field.

847
01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:16.934
That is certainly where the
field is moving to. We

848
01:04:16.934 --> 01:04:21.934
can deploy and make sense of the
numbers. Here

849
01:04:21.934 --> 01:04:29.934
are a couple pictures that show
the comparison on the

850
01:04:29.934 --> 01:04:35.000
left-hand side. Looking at the
polyethylene sheet within

851
01:04:35.000 --> 01:04:41.000
an aluminum frame pushed through
the sediment through a heavy

852
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:47.000
sampling device. The right-hand
side, we see the

853
01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:53.000
gloved hands of one of my
graduate students.

854
01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:59.000
It would now be inserted in the
mud, water will

855
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:05.000
be added.

856
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:11.000
Of course there is a strong
preference. It has a few

857
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:19.000
drawbacks. One is logistics. You

858
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:25.000
might need two trips that might
be costlier. Depending on how
you

859
01:05:25.000 --> 01:05:34.067
do it and how deep it is you
might need a diver which could

860
01:05:34.067 --> 01:05:40.067
add expense. We talked about the

861
01:05:40.067 --> 01:05:43.067
other part that as a little bit
of a challenge to the approach
and

862
01:05:43.067 --> 01:05:47.067
you have to be worried that
somehow your sample gets lost
during your

863
01:05:47.067 --> 01:05:52.067
deployment that you can't
retrieve it during two some

864
01:05:52.067 --> 01:05:57.067
weather event. You just have to
make sure you find a Safeway

865
01:05:57.067 --> 01:06:03.067
of securing and locating your
sample after weeks of

866
01:06:03.067 --> 01:06:08.067
exposure. Of course you get the
feel that you want whereas if
you

867
01:06:08.067 --> 01:06:14.000
take it back to the lab you
might have bias with

868
01:06:14.000 --> 01:06:18.000
the result. It cuts both ways.
If it is a very heterogeneous

869
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:23.000
site you would just need
additional samples either

870
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:29.000
way. In the lab in theory might
get away with a

871
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:34.067
few less data points. Lastly,
the interpretation

872
01:06:34.067 --> 01:06:37.067
of the results.

873
01:06:37.067 --> 01:06:42.067
The benefit of taking sediments
back to the lab is that you can

874
01:06:42.067 --> 01:06:48.067
make sure samples reach all of
your levels

875
01:06:48.067 --> 01:06:52.067
of interest. The diffusion is
slow

876
01:06:52.067 --> 01:06:58.067
and you really reach that point.
You have to apply

877
01:06:58.067 --> 01:07:02.067
some models to change the
results from

878
01:07:02.067 --> 01:07:09.067
what you have measured when it
was retrieved to a

879
01:07:09.067 --> 01:07:13.067
equilibrium approach. This is
basically showing

880
01:07:13.067 --> 01:07:20.000
what this looks like. Eventually
you

881
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:29.000
reach equilibrium. All of the
approaches work here where the
conversion

882
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:45.067
is easy.

883
01:07:45.067 --> 01:07:50.067
>> The tool that has been
pioneered for 15-17 years was

884
01:07:50.067 --> 01:07:54.067
the inclusion of performance
reference compound, a very
powerful

885
01:07:54.067 --> 01:08:00.067
approach. We had compounds to
your samples.

886
01:08:00.067 --> 01:08:03.067
The reason that they should not
occur at the site is that way
you

887
01:08:03.067 --> 01:08:07.067
can make sure there is only the

888
01:08:07.067 --> 01:08:13.067
loss. The beauty of the
reference compound is you know
there is

889
01:08:13.067 --> 01:08:18.000
an initial concentration and
then you watch

890
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:24.000
the disappearance. The loss will
be affected by the same
environmental

891
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:28.000
factors that affect the uptake.
If they

892
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:34.067
are big temperature changes it
will affect both. If there are
changes

893
01:08:34.067 --> 01:08:40.067
it will affect both update and
loss to the same

894
01:08:40.067 --> 01:08:46.067
agree. The idea is if we take
our target compound

895
01:08:46.067 --> 01:08:52.067
sample out after 15 days it is
only

896
01:08:52.067 --> 01:09:01.067
25% equilibrated.

897
01:09:01.067 --> 01:09:07.067
That way we can correct to the
hypothetical

898
01:09:07.067 --> 01:09:20.834
and final equilibrium
concentration.

899
01:09:20.834 --> 01:09:31.300
It works well for any and all

900
01:09:31.300 --> 01:09:45.067
situation unless
you have additional

901
01:09:45.067 --> 01:09:50.067
activated carbon.

902
01:09:50.067 --> 01:09:56.067
Here is a comparison of what it
actually

903
01:09:56.067 --> 01:10:12.067
looks like.

904
01:10:12.067 --> 01:10:19.000
The results are shown in the
black circles. I'm sorry,

905
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:34.067
the black squares.

906
01:10:34.067 --> 01:10:40.067
The measurements were lower
because there was sufficient by

907
01:10:40.067 --> 01:10:43.067
a flushing.

908
01:10:43.067 --> 01:10:48.067
In the mid-River section which

909
01:10:48.067 --> 01:10:51.067
is panel B on the right you see
there is no real difference
between

910
01:10:51.067 --> 01:11:00.067
the two. In this case it
wouldn't really matter. You can
see

911
01:11:00.067 --> 01:11:06.067
in green the sample that was
buried in

912
01:11:06.067 --> 01:11:09.067
the sediment.

913
01:11:09.067 --> 01:11:14.000
You can see basically they agree
very well.

914
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:18.000
In this case there isn't enough
animals living to actually

915
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:24.000
make a difference to the water
concentration in

916
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:26.000
the field.

917
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:32.000
>> The final slide is very busy,
but a very nice piece of work
that

918
01:11:32.000 --> 01:11:36.000
was pull together with maybe 10
different laboratories around

919
01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:41.000
the world. He was interested and
seeing if all of

920
01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:47.000
these mobile -- most academic
labs have the same sediment. He

921
01:11:47.000 --> 01:11:55.000
shared them and then he asked to
use the approach and send them

922
01:11:55.000 --> 01:12:01.000
back to him. That is the top
panel. You can see a line in

923
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:05.000
the middle and a

924
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:10.000
factor of 10 either way. When
all these labs participated

925
01:12:10.000 --> 01:12:15.934
we realized it was almost 100
from the lowest to the highest
number

926
01:12:15.934 --> 01:12:18.934
of water concentrations. The
agreement

927
01:12:18.934 --> 01:12:23.934
was certainly not as good as we
hoped. In the next up we follow

928
01:12:23.934 --> 01:12:29.934
the same method and he said you
have to use the same

929
01:12:29.934 --> 01:12:36.000
K values. That result is in
panel B. In

930
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:42.000
this case the reliability was
cut into half, but it

931
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:47.000
is still not in agreement. The
next step, he made us do all

932
01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:52.000
the work. We set the path
samples back to him and he
analyzed the

933
01:12:52.000 --> 01:13:01.000
them all. Now, the question of

934
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:06.000
quality control was cut out
because he did all the
measurements on one

935
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:10.000
instrument. There was a market
improvement from panel B

936
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:14.934
to panel C, now it is much
reduced. Clearly

937
01:13:14.934 --> 01:13:19.934
it can be extremely precise if
done well. On panel D the last
three

938
01:13:19.934 --> 01:13:24.934
pot show if everything is done
in one map it gets even better.
Looking

939
01:13:24.934 --> 01:13:29.934
at a factor of maybe 1.7 in
average value. It is something
that

940
01:13:29.934 --> 01:13:33.000
is very powerful. If done well
you can get

941
01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:36.000
excellent numbers.

942
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:42.000
>> I should talk limitations.
Certainly getting the

943
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:46.000
samples the ploy, getting them
stock in the correct manner and
getting

944
01:13:46.000 --> 01:13:51.000
them back out is somewhat
intensive in labor and cost. The
time factor

945
01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:56.000
is such that he cuts diffusion
is a slow process we are looking
at

946
01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:01.000
weeks of the plumbing time. Of
course typically we are
concerned

947
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:10.000
that the contaminated sites have
been contaminated for a

948
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:18.934
long time.

949
01:14:18.934 --> 01:14:21.934
You certainly have to include
performance reference compounds

950
01:14:21.934 --> 01:14:26.934
and use some models to interpret
the data. As I show, there is
guidance

951
01:14:26.934 --> 01:14:33.000
documents available and you can
download it for free. The last
point,

952
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:37.000
there has been a strong focus on
involving commercial for toys

953
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:43.000
to make sure the knowledge and
the tools from the academic
world

954
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:49.000
are passed on. It is possible

955
01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:56.000
to rely on them to get the
numbers right. Now comes the
question

956
01:14:56.000 --> 01:15:01.000
that I never knew the answer to,
knowing all this great stuff why

957
01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:07.000
would you use them at your site?

958
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:11.000
Folks, go ahead and enter

959
01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:17.000
your responses. It looks like we
are starting to get a pretty
good

960
01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.000
response here. It looks like
there is quite the concern about
regulatory

961
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:27.000
acceptance. It seems to be
taking the lead.

962
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.067
>> Always good to blame the
others.

963
01:15:30.067 --> 01:15:35.067
>> Face on what we're seeing
here there is not much of

964
01:15:35.067 --> 01:15:39.067
an issue with cost compared to
some of the

965
01:15:39.067 --> 01:15:41.067
issues related to deployment,
resources, and how

966
01:15:41.067 --> 01:15:47.067
to interpret data. Can you
respond to some of those?

967
01:15:47.067 --> 01:15:53.067
>> Sure. I think there is so
much experience. Time and

968
01:15:53.067 --> 01:15:58.067
resource is such an issue. There
are certainly

969
01:15:58.067 --> 01:16:07.067
efforts underway to make some of
these deploy.

970
01:16:07.067 --> 01:16:14.000
The regulatory acceptance, I
think that

971
01:16:14.000 --> 01:16:18.000
you can make the case that you
can basically predict

972
01:16:18.000 --> 01:16:26.000
the concentration which might be
irrelevant metrics. I think that

973
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:32.067
is possible.

974
01:16:32.067 --> 01:16:38.067
I think that a key point is
turning the data

975
01:16:38.067 --> 01:16:44.067
back to some other
concentration. I think that

976
01:16:44.067 --> 01:16:48.067
ideally you would say this is
the equivalent and hopefully you
can

977
01:16:48.067 --> 01:16:57.067
use that to convince whoever is
in involved

978
01:16:57.067 --> 01:17:01.067
to avoid remediation.

979
01:17:01.067 --> 01:17:05.067
>> Along those lines one of our
participants is asking about the

980
01:17:05.067 --> 01:17:10.067
availability of coefficients for
PE and as PME

981
01:17:10.067 --> 01:17:16.000
for contaminants. Other than
PCBs and PAH what are the

982
01:17:16.000 --> 01:17:22.000
other coefficients that are
available for samplers?

983
01:17:22.000 --> 01:17:27.000
Where would one go to find this
information?

984
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:34.067
>> A great question. I think
they are the

985
01:17:34.067 --> 01:17:38.067
best researchers that are widely
published. Three citations cover

986
01:17:38.067 --> 01:17:41.067
a lot of them. There are others
that are not as extensive,

987
01:17:41.067 --> 01:17:47.067
but there is certainly data that
would support the use

988
01:17:47.067 --> 01:17:57.067
of them.

989
01:17:57.067 --> 01:18:01.067
>> Just as a reminder to
everyone, later on in

990
01:18:01.067 --> 01:18:06.067
this sediment series, I believe
November 20 we have another
speaker

991
01:18:06.067 --> 01:18:11.067
or two that will be talking in
pretty good he tells following
on

992
01:18:11.067 --> 01:18:15.000
to what Rainer has introduced in
talking more about these passive

993
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:23.000
samplers and some of the tells
of incorporating that data

994
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:27.000
into interpretation. We do have
a couple of specific questions
about

995
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:31.067
compounds of interest. It looks
like we have had a lot of
concern

996
01:18:31.067 --> 01:18:35.067
about the polychlorinated
substances. Rainer,

997
01:18:35.067 --> 01:18:41.067
do you have any experience with
the

998
01:18:41.067 --> 01:18:45.067
use of these samplers with PFAST
and what labs or commercial

999
01:18:45.067 --> 01:18:50.067
opportunities there are for
folks to go and try to test it
adamant

1000
01:18:50.067 --> 01:18:53.067
sites?

1001
01:18:53.067 --> 01:19:02.067
>> Funny, I was just at a
meeting where we were developing

1002
01:19:02.067 --> 01:19:04.067
a Y variety of tools for PFAST.

1003
01:19:04.067 --> 01:19:10.067
Right now the focus from the US
DS is available. Beyond that
there

1004
01:19:10.067 --> 01:19:26.067
is not much more on the market.

1005
01:19:26.067 --> 01:19:33.067
>> On a related subject,
sediments are also a big

1006
01:19:33.067 --> 01:19:37.067
issue. Are there labs or
facilities that you know

1007
01:19:37.067 --> 01:19:45.067
of who are enveloping methyl
mercury diffusion samplers?

1008
01:19:45.067 --> 01:19:51.067
>> I think that will be one of
the future webinars and we

1009
01:19:51.067 --> 01:19:54.067
will have.

1010
01:19:54.067 --> 01:19:58.067
I think it is in the

1011
01:19:58.067 --> 01:20:00.534
works, probably still on the
academic side at

1012
01:20:00.534 --> 01:20:01.267
this point.

1013
01:20:01.267 --> 01:20:08.067
>> Okay. Under the limitations,
could you speak recently to

1014
01:20:08.067 --> 01:20:13.067
any interferences that might be
associated with collecting and
using

1015
01:20:13.067 --> 01:20:19.000
this data that has yielded
interference from

1016
01:20:19.000 --> 01:20:22.000
other sites?

1017
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:26.000
>> Typically speaking, because
[ Indiscernible ]

1018
01:20:26.000 --> 01:20:32.067
it is limited to only compounds
the

1019
01:20:32.067 --> 01:20:38.067
can diffuse. In that way it is
better.

1020
01:20:38.067 --> 01:20:43.067
I remember in some of the
earlier days we collaborated

1021
01:20:43.067 --> 01:20:48.067
with the EPA. The signal of them
was

1022
01:20:48.067 --> 01:20:52.067
pretty high and it was swapping
some of the other details.
Depending

1023
01:20:52.067 --> 01:20:59.067
on your instrument you my have
to be careful. If you use an MS

1024
01:20:59.067 --> 01:21:03.067
based approach that should not
normally be a problem.

1025
01:21:03.067 --> 01:21:12.067
>> Okay. One other question, one
of the participants

1026
01:21:12.067 --> 01:21:18.000
asked about biofowling, do you
see them? Does

1027
01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:24.000
it affect the PRC's as well as
the contaminants

1028
01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:26.000
of concerns that you are looking
at?

1029
01:21:26.000 --> 01:21:29.000
>> That is a great question. It
is always a concern and more of

1030
01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:35.000
a concern if we see samples and
the

1031
01:21:35.000 --> 01:21:38.000
water samples.

1032
01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:44.000
It will also slow

1033
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:50.000
down release and of course the
uptake. The

1034
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:54.000
PFC is correct for any of these

1035
01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:55.000
disturbances.

1036
01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:59.000
>> Thank you. We have one final
question for you before we get
back

1037
01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:04.000
to the others, we had a number
of

1038
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:11.000
folks interested in more
understanding of the application
of metals to

1039
01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:16.934
passage samplers. Are they
commonly use? What are some of
the

1040
01:22:16.934 --> 01:22:22.934
concerns with samples for
metals?

1041
01:22:22.934 --> 01:22:26.934
>> For metals there are the
diffusive gradients, the GT
approach

1042
01:22:26.934 --> 01:22:29.934
is the best that I am aware of.

1043
01:22:29.934 --> 01:22:34.000
That has been established for
maybe 30 years by

1044
01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:42.000
a group from the UK.

1045
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:47.000
That is a slightly different
approach, but it

1046
01:22:47.000 --> 01:22:53.000
certainly works. It is possible
and as far as I know it is a
nicely

1047
01:22:53.000 --> 01:22:56.000
working tool.

1048
01:22:56.000 --> 01:22:59.000
>> Okay. We do have a few
minutes left. I would like to
pose

1049
01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:04.000
an integrative question to all
three presenters who did an
excellent

1050
01:23:04.000 --> 01:23:09.000
job today. We started this
discussion with the use

1051
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:13.000
of models and a general overview
of the types of models that can

1052
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:18.934
be used and how to go about
thinking about models.

1053
01:23:18.934 --> 01:23:24.934
And then we talked about two
different techniques ISM and

1054
01:23:24.934 --> 01:23:29.934
passive samplers. I pose the
question, first to the modeling
team and

1055
01:23:29.934 --> 01:23:34.000
then to the other two speakers,
how do we integrate or have you

1056
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:39.000
seen the integration of ISM

1057
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:43.000
and passive sampling techniques
into the models? To the others,

1058
01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:48.000
have you seen your passive
sampler data or ISM data used in

1059
01:23:48.000 --> 01:23:53.000
some of the models that our core
experts discussed? I would like

1060
01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:56.000
to start with the core team
first.

1061
01:23:56.000 --> 01:24:02.000
>> This is Todd Bridges, I think
one of

1062
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:06.000
the opportunities that we should
be taking more advantage of them

1063
01:24:06.000 --> 01:24:12.000
starting discussions about
modeling and actually using
modeling

1064
01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:20.934
very early in the project
lifecycle to conform

1065
01:24:20.934 --> 01:24:23.934
sampling strategies. Sometimes I
think and the past it has been

1066
01:24:23.934 --> 01:24:27.934
the case the teams happen
brought into a project later
than ideal

1067
01:24:27.934 --> 01:24:34.000
and basically presented with
data. That is

1068
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:39.000
not optimal. I think one of the
powerful uses is

1069
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:43.000
to inform strategies for data
collection so that we are making
the most of

1070
01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:49.000
the resources that are available
to collect data that are going

1071
01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:56.000
to be relevant for use as
decision tools later in

1072
01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:59.000
the project.

1073
01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:05.000
>> What about the ISM team, have
you seen

1074
01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:08.000
your data?

1075
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:13.067
>> We have, we have seen and on
the other side where the data

1076
01:25:13.067 --> 01:25:14.868
was used to inform modeling for
remedial strategies.

1077
01:25:14.868 --> 01:25:17.033
>> [ Event has exceeded
scheduled time. Captioner must
proceed to

1078
01:25:17.033 --> 01:25:19.000
captioner's next scheduled
event.

1079
01:25:19.000 --> 01:25:24.000
Disconnecting at 2:30. ]